The Unenviable Position - Why MMO's Suck
Let me be frank here - MMO's are terrible. They waste precious time & money over random rolls on a loot table. They are dull and tedious grind fests, where we rush around seeking this random piece of dreck for this other guy across a dozen all too similar environments. They offer terrifically shallow gameplay of beating up this dude because your numbers are better this their numbers.
Yet we continue to play them - shelling out hundreds of dollars a year for the same game, day in and out.
The Old Republic is my poison of choice, followed by Lord of the Rings Online. I don't play very often, but when I do, I shell out my money like anyone else for a few months before once again remembering why I stopped playing in the first place. Its always for the same reasons....
The reason's I quit World of Warcraft.
Yes, I played WoW and Everyquest.. And yes even that most ancient of MMO's 'The Realm'. Before that it was MUD's and MUSH's - indulging in the classic dungeon crawl and roleplaying via text. The transition from those primitive and early text-driven efforts, to the sleek graphical offerings was exciting - to see the breathtaking magic of worlds brought to life. To see them actually live and breath in glorious 3-D was a pleasure I still remember.
The simple joys or hitting level 10 for the first time.. or crafting your first worthy object.. or killing that monster that always used to antagonize you.. These were all reasons I kept playing, going deeper - leaving behind the early levels of the beginner for the big cities and terrifying dark citadels. It is this sense of advancement and achievement that drives you on - wanting to see what is next, wanting to do what you keep hearing about all those others have already done...
At least until you realize the awful and rather hideous truth, but I will get to that.
I was level 31 in WoW, having been playing for several months. I had been playing almost non-stop, conquering every monster that lay before me - and had even joined a guild for some the bigger quests. All was bright and exciting, and it seemed like that would never end.
Until it suddenly stopped being fun.
The game became too much of a grind, demanded too much of my free time. Trying to stay on par with some of my guild mates became too time consuming. I dropped out the guild after a bunch of players quit to go off elsewhere, and just on the brink of level 33 I stopped playing altogether.
After having played though about half the playable levels (at that time anyway), I stopped with the quests undone and the adventure incomplete. I never would make 60 - even after playing again on and off for a while. Starting a new character was no help - the once exciting narratives that drove me on had already happened, and were dull and tedious. The quests, which I had pursued with relish, were boring.
At that point it was easy to just walk away.
Then came Lord of the Rings Online - it looked fun and, while very similar to WoW, it was set in the far more interesting world of Tolkien. I dived in and traveled my character extensively, going to some of the wonderful places from the books. This time I almost entirely solo'd the game, making temporary groupings but never committing. I got to about level 28 and heading east... And then again I stopped.
Leveling was taking a bit of time, but was not too bad. But the lack of companions was hurting me, and the solo experience was just not all that exciting. The story quests, while good, were not terribly engaging after a time - taking far too long to get into. Add to that the usual gamut of Free-to-Play issues (I was primarily a Free-To-Play player- though I did purchase a few of the Turbine points now and again), and it just got dull and tedious again. It was just WoW in Middle-Earth, albeit in many ways far superior to that old title.
The next MMO I would play would be 'The Old Republic', and that was better than both of those previous games put together. But I got to the mid-30's and guess what? I think you see the pattern here.
Now I still play the Old Republic, its probably the only game I really have any actual investment in. Its also got the most to do, is the most immersive, and offers a lot of opportunity to play it the way you want to. The solid writing and voice acting don't hurt either.
But at its core - underneath all the glitter - its yet again, just another WoW-clone. Completely superior in every way, but at its core - its still the same game with all the same problems. Its not a 'good' game.
The harsh truth is, no MMO is a good game. Some are adequate, some are moderately interesting - but none are good. No MMO is going to leave your breathless and excited to play it, savouring every minute of the experience. No MMO is going to make you really wonder what could happen next.
There are no great revelations. There are no incredible Journeys into the unknown. There is just endless vista's of more of the same. There is no true 'accomplishment'. There is no changing of scope, or real progress. You just getting better at killing things with other things - using most of the same things you used before, just better - or a bare handful of new abilities, again just for defeating the same banal enemies with slightly different colours over and over again.
MMO's are just a $15 a month money sink, designed strictly to take as long as possible so the company in question can make more money. Even the good ones like 'The Old Republic' are the same. There is no real creativity going on, or any particular innovation. It is a genre that is as jaded and cynical as the suits responsible for keeping these games alive.
You see, WoW was just too successful. Blizzard found the best way to make money and keep people coming back. They had studied at the feet of Everquest and used that knowledge to create the next step, fixing the problems of that earlier title to create their own better game. It was fundamentally perfect - capturing the popularity of the Warcraft series and merging it with the opportunity to 'live' within it. Yet it also had a sustainable business model, requiring people to keep shelling out money and to play for perhaps a year to get to the most interesting bits. It also encouraged people to invite their friends to the game so they could play together. It was a complete success - and 10 years later, people are STILL playing it.
And it utterly destroyed the MMO market.
WoW killed any and all innovation - and instead of MMO's growing to be dynamic and interesting things, they all became dead bland clones. Some offer shinier bits then others, but at the end of the day it all came down to game companies keep a constant stream of money going into their coffers. Take WoW's base, add a nifty piece or two and VIOLA - you have a revenue stream.
Now, this is not me 'bashing' companies making money - I feel that if you release a good product you should make money for it. But MMO's are not 'good'. They are not special. They are ultimately lazy. People flock to the next one, hoping beyond hope that it will be something new and fresh. In the end they are disappointed, because nobody wants to take a risk on changing the rules. And that is sad.
You see, for all my bashing of them - I WANT MMO's to work. The idea of building virtual societies and realities is intriguing for me. There is some powerful potential there - and as of yet, all is not yet lost.
First off - EVE exists.
Now I don't like EVE much, its very much the arm-chair accountants game and requires a killer ruthlessness I do not enjoy. But right now its the most dynamic and fascinating game out there. Entirely cultures and powers have risen and fell within the game, great wars have been fought - entire armies and time and effort have been obliterated in an instant. Its exciting, and you never know what will happen next.
Why? Because the game is simply a trading simulator. That is it. There are no quests, (though you can do missions - they are not the same thing), there is really no goal except to make lots of money and buy bigger ships. Everything else is driven by the players, and it is because of them the game is exciting. CCP, the company that owns and developes EVE, has taken a hands off approach to disciplining the player base. while simply adding more and more to do and buy. This lets the players creativity free to flourish and has created some of the craziest stories out of EVE.
Lets not sugarcoat this though. EVE is no picnic. The players are some of the most ruthless bastards on the planet, and the hands-off approach of CCP leads to constant abuses of power by veteran players. Given that there are some serious real-time components to EVE, this is a game that demands your attention. But if you get into it - its a place where anything can happen.
Now in most MMO's the experience is sanitized entirely. PvP is limited to voluntary status, and theft is non-existent. EVE throws all that out the window (yes I know that this is not 'technically' true - but as Goon Squad keeps proving you are never safe no matter where you are), and that is something I do not like. Spending hours doing your own thing, only to suddenly have everything taken from you by someone with a bigger stick is not 'fun' to most people. Likewise the difficulty of trying to get certain items in many MMO's makes the ideas of stealing or losing all your possessions unappealing for any MMO developer because it risks the loss of players.
As a result, the WoW model is risk-free. There is no penalty other then maybe losing a little money to death - you can't be captured and your stuff is completely safe. While this is appealing in principal - this diminishes the accomplishment and eliminates any reason to be cautious. It also limits player interactions, since players can freely ignore one another without penalty.
Now I am not saying that an MMO should be turned into a free-for-all - these are games after all and games should be fun. But bringing risk back into the game is not a bad thing - having there being a price for death or carelessness can change the mentality of many players in the game. EVE handles this cleverly with tying risk to rewards. In essence, there is nothing stopping you from playing the it 'safe' in High Security sectors making a little ISK. However, to really make the mega-ISK and become powerful you have to head-out into areas with a lower security rating and thus less safety. Since security ratings work on a sliding scale, you can gradually up your risk - and maybe you won't fully go all the way out, maybe you will. Its up to you, and brings player initiative back to the forefront.
Unfortunately, there is no way to graft this kind of approach into the WoW model. Part of the reason that the risk in EVE works is because all players, even experienced ones, are vulnerable. A new player with a bit luck can take out on old player. In WoW and its ilk, this is virtually impossible thanks to the leveling system. Imagine a level 10 trying to take on a level 30, or even a level 20 or 15. The level 10 can never win. This is enforced by the limitations of equipment and grinding required to get good equipment, and the binding system preventing old equipment from being shared. As a result, you can't afford to let the gloves off even a little because powerful players will simply destroy less powerful ones with no penalty or risk. (As happened in the much earlier MMO - Ultima Online).
I could go on about EVE, the good and bad, but that would take far too long. So lets just say there is a LOT to watch for in EVE that has the potential to shake up a world where 'Collect 10 Rat tails' is still commonplace.
Now EVE is is not the only place to look out for. The other is that legend of the RPG world - Richard Garriot.
A few years ago, I sat at a panel he was hosting about MMOs. He talked about some of his new projects. He spoke plainly about Ultima Online and the failures and successes there. In particular was his bringing up of the concept on the 'non-combat' MMO player. In Ultima Online, you could simply sit back and create a fantasy business and make furniture, or weapons, or magic items for the adventuring players to use. While it was not the majority, around a third of the player base engaged in that kind of play. In many cases, it was the most lucrative and you could make a small fortune.
Now, this entire style has completely vanished from the MMO world. 'Crafting' skills are basically a distraction and time sink, for the possibility of being able to get 'decent/good' equipment far down the line. Garriot saw an opportunity to tap into that kind of player again, and allow the MMO to be far more then just a 'killing monsters jamboree' (My words not his).
Fast-forward to today, and Garriot's successful Kickstarter 'Shroud of the Avatar'. Its a potential new hybrid MMO/Singleplayer game trying to bring back a lot of the things that made Ultima Online great. I am excited by this - but also apprehensive.
Let me be blunt here: I love his Ultima Series, and back in the day Garriot was one of the greats with some of the best game examples out there. That said, the last real games he pretty much hands on worked on were back in the mid-90's. Hes been a producer since there, mostly in the MMO sphere on games for NcSoft. Admittedly the games were not your standard WoW clones, but that was because most of them debuted before or around WoW's dominance. One of the latest of these, Tabula Rasa, a game with his fingerprints all over it, was interesting but ultimately a dud.
Now, Richard is still a formidable personality and he obviously cares a lot about the industry, gaming at large, and his fans. But does that mean he can still make it? Or is he more like a washed up rockstar trying to cling desperately to his glory days with that one last hurrah?
I've looked at the 'Shroud of the Avatar' videos and checked the updates (I have yet to donate money to it, but I may) - and while I am impressed by the list of promises, I am also forced to ask - Is this all smoke? Will this game have all the wonderful things being promised? Or will they be 'Features for the next release'. A LOT is riding on this for him, including his credibility - He has raised over $4 million dollars from crowd-sourcing due to his name and reputation. But can he deliver? Or will this be an example of 'Molyneuxesque' overreach?
My first impressions were admittedly not great - the game looks ugly as hell, but its still early and the potential is great. Only time will tell, here and I remain hopeful that Richard will knock this one out of the park and prove once again worthy of his title of 'Game God'.
Alright, I've ranted long enough - in conclusion: MMO's remain a land of untapped potential. WoW is the dead-end that will hopefully be someday forgotten, and other more worthy titles are on the horizon. Will we see innovation or just more stagnation? Only time will tell.
Unfortunately, there is no way to graft this kind of approach into the WoW model. Part of the reason that the risk in EVE works is because all players, even experienced ones, are vulnerable. A new player with a bit luck can take out on old player. In WoW and its ilk, this is virtually impossible thanks to the leveling system. Imagine a level 10 trying to take on a level 30, or even a level 20 or 15. The level 10 can never win. This is enforced by the limitations of equipment and grinding required to get good equipment, and the binding system preventing old equipment from being shared. As a result, you can't afford to let the gloves off even a little because powerful players will simply destroy less powerful ones with no penalty or risk. (As happened in the much earlier MMO - Ultima Online).
I could go on about EVE, the good and bad, but that would take far too long. So lets just say there is a LOT to watch for in EVE that has the potential to shake up a world where 'Collect 10 Rat tails' is still commonplace.
Now EVE is is not the only place to look out for. The other is that legend of the RPG world - Richard Garriot.
A few years ago, I sat at a panel he was hosting about MMOs. He talked about some of his new projects. He spoke plainly about Ultima Online and the failures and successes there. In particular was his bringing up of the concept on the 'non-combat' MMO player. In Ultima Online, you could simply sit back and create a fantasy business and make furniture, or weapons, or magic items for the adventuring players to use. While it was not the majority, around a third of the player base engaged in that kind of play. In many cases, it was the most lucrative and you could make a small fortune.
Now, this entire style has completely vanished from the MMO world. 'Crafting' skills are basically a distraction and time sink, for the possibility of being able to get 'decent/good' equipment far down the line. Garriot saw an opportunity to tap into that kind of player again, and allow the MMO to be far more then just a 'killing monsters jamboree' (My words not his).
Fast-forward to today, and Garriot's successful Kickstarter 'Shroud of the Avatar'. Its a potential new hybrid MMO/Singleplayer game trying to bring back a lot of the things that made Ultima Online great. I am excited by this - but also apprehensive.
Let me be blunt here: I love his Ultima Series, and back in the day Garriot was one of the greats with some of the best game examples out there. That said, the last real games he pretty much hands on worked on were back in the mid-90's. Hes been a producer since there, mostly in the MMO sphere on games for NcSoft. Admittedly the games were not your standard WoW clones, but that was because most of them debuted before or around WoW's dominance. One of the latest of these, Tabula Rasa, a game with his fingerprints all over it, was interesting but ultimately a dud.
Now, Richard is still a formidable personality and he obviously cares a lot about the industry, gaming at large, and his fans. But does that mean he can still make it? Or is he more like a washed up rockstar trying to cling desperately to his glory days with that one last hurrah?
I've looked at the 'Shroud of the Avatar' videos and checked the updates (I have yet to donate money to it, but I may) - and while I am impressed by the list of promises, I am also forced to ask - Is this all smoke? Will this game have all the wonderful things being promised? Or will they be 'Features for the next release'. A LOT is riding on this for him, including his credibility - He has raised over $4 million dollars from crowd-sourcing due to his name and reputation. But can he deliver? Or will this be an example of 'Molyneuxesque' overreach?
My first impressions were admittedly not great - the game looks ugly as hell, but its still early and the potential is great. Only time will tell, here and I remain hopeful that Richard will knock this one out of the park and prove once again worthy of his title of 'Game God'.
Alright, I've ranted long enough - in conclusion: MMO's remain a land of untapped potential. WoW is the dead-end that will hopefully be someday forgotten, and other more worthy titles are on the horizon. Will we see innovation or just more stagnation? Only time will tell.
You make some interesting points. I still play and enjoy MMOs, but I don't know why. I think the main downfall of the modren MMO is that they have become primarily single player games. The older MMOs had way more grinding than the modren genre, but it was more fun, because you were forced to play with others. You sat there and bonded with others or made enemies. Now a days you can do everything by yourself, even raids. Sure you technically group with others, but 99% of the time you never see them again. You can run through an entire raid without anybody speaking a word. The only saving grace is if you are playing with friends. This brings back some of the old magic.
ReplyDeleteYou are right that WoW's success has ruined the MMO market, but there are some interesting games that have come out recently. FFXIV was heavily story driven like SW: TOR, but unlike that game the story was actually god and drove you to grind through the game to see what happens next. I also like how FFXIV changed up how questing is done, with the FATE system. Unfortuantely after you finish the story FFXIV turns into another WoW clone. WIldstar at first seems like another WoW clone, but the battle system is highly active and a lot of fun. However, the game just released so we'll see how fun it stays in a couple months.
I'm not saying MMO's cant't be fun. I do enjoy them on occasion myself, but MMO's are just not 'good' right now. You can have fun with an average game.
ReplyDeleteI do agree, they have become more Single Player oriented. Part of that is because we don't 'know' people on the other side of an online game - and with MMO's you never know when someone could vanish overnight. Also - there is little point to BEING social.
I'm not talking about simply 'grinding' or having to do 'group quests' - but in WoW and its ilk, there is virtually no reason to have to talk to other people. Grouping may or may not be a boon to you, and often it doesn't much interfere with your quest chains.
City of Heroes, with all its flaws, actually handled this quite well by having a lot of quests in the line which you pretty much had no choice BUT to group them. And grouping was rewarded anyway because no class could handle itself all that fantastically on its own. The game was balanced on the classic D&D party approach - every class adds a boon, no class can auto-win every fight. (Though some classes were more useful in a fight then others)
This largely does not exist in WoW - because the classes don't have to interact in the same way. Sure you have have some characters who do crowd control and healing and maybe some tanking - but overall there is a greater emphasis on single player advantage then a cohesive group dynamics. Now you can say that for some quests - on the raid side of things - that is true, but by the time you CAN do raids, you've probably been solo'ing for a while and have had little reason to go ahead and DO raids before. In essence, grouping is a thrown together thing, and like you said you'll never see them again.
Storytelling in MMO's is neat, but problematic. I like TOR's stories, even if they are not perfect. But the problem is that the MMO is still the same fundamental game under the surface. A good story (ala Dragon Age) can make up for a lot. But the point of an MMO is to play with other people online, and the storytelling aspect is normally dedicated to the 'player' to make them feel special and unique. While this is great in single player - its not in MMO land.
Why should I play $15 a month for what is essentially a long grind-filled single player game with some optional multiplayer when I can pull out NWN or Baldur's Gate - both of which are arguably superior in gameplay and storytelling to every MMO in existence?
The problem isn't variety, or even neat mechanics - but that the entire model is a dead end. WildStar & FF14 can add all the neat shiny's they want - At the end of the day, its all SSDD. MMO's need to be re-evaluated fully. There should never be 'just an end game', but a change of scope for players with opportunities for increased interaction and new different challenges. There needs to be more depth, and less shallow 'kill the monster, and collect its body part.'
Till then MMO's will just continue to suck.
Raids used to be the reason to play. Vanilla, Burning Crusade, and WoTLK had some amazing raids that required teamwork and communication. Every boss was varied and there was ton of atmosphere. Then cataclysm dropped. Now you can just queue up for a raid that is bland and every boss has similar mechanics.
ReplyDeleteSomething you haven't brought up that is also killing the genre is the holy trinity of Tank, Heal, DPS. The tank and heal are essential to group content, while dps are largely disposable. This leads to long que times, and lots of entitlement from the tanks and dps. But most importantly it limits content, as you always have to design dungeons with the trinity in mind. Guild Wars 2 did away with the trinity, but it was a disaster as they largely kept the dungeon designs the same, instead of changing them to fit the new dynamic. This basically led dungeons to be a giant confusing clusterfuck that nobody ran.
My issue with raids is that they are not for everyone - and were time consuming, and really despite teamwork mechanics - they distilled down to 'bigger' more complicated killing of mooks. Also they required you to have already played for a LONG cycle, grinded for equipment - etc..
ReplyDeleteI did not discuss the unholy trinity because my whole argument is the entire model needs to be thrown out and replaced. It can't be fixed because it is in fact perfect. It is doing exactly what it is supposed to do - which unfortunately sucks.
In a comparison to Tabletop RPGs - its why 4th edition D&D was completely and utterly forgettable. As a game and system, it was almost flawless - but that does not make something good or fun.
Its why EVE is s huge success - It ain't perfect, nor is it trying to be.
It's also one of the reasons that EVE is so boring, frustrating, and nigh impenetrable unless you can get into a good player corp.
ReplyDeleteBelieve me, there are only two reasons why EVE is so successful.
First, they have a large, rabid playerbase. Gameplay-wise, EVE is a giant sandbox where, theoretically and given enough time, the player is capable of doing anything. Crafting, fighting, scouting, etc. etc. can all be attempted or done by any player. In short, EVE is all about freedom. And naturally, when you get many players in a group together doing individual tasks, you create an economy where everyone is capable of contributing and becoming known.
It's really cool... in concept.
Until you realize that the only reason the game is interesting is because it is essentially emulating the real world, which means that most people will, generally, get to deal with the same bullshit they deal with... in the real world.
I'm not going to get into this, because I could be here all night.
For many people, games are an escape. You get to be something that you aren't in the real world, and many experiences often hinge on that. EVE does do this... provided you can dig yourself deep enough into the game, or pay Something Awful for a pass into the Goons. The issue is that in order to get immersed, EVE takes time. I played about 3 months before I just said "screw it" because I didn't want to be forced to pay and play for upwards of a year just to get somewhere, let alone figure out what I was supposed to do.
And yes, I tried playing in a Corp. EVE University and the crap I had to go through during wartime is what got me to stop playing.
The second reason EVE shines is entirely based around technical and practical aspects.
Space is, bar none, one of the easiest environments to expand, build and maintain because space is little more then a bunch of things floating around in a giant dark void filled with dots. Build a starfield, a few objects to put in it, maybe add some nice clouds or distant background objects, and you have space.
WoWLikes, which mostly set themselves on planets, cannot do that. Planets have the annoying habit of having things like geography, environments, unique structures, and actual, tangible locations. Nobody wants to see completely copied environments. If I go to a new area, I expect to see something new and interesting. I don't want to see the same old castles, fields, and grassy knolls I saw in the area I started out in.
This makes the world one of the most major limitations for any fantasy MMO, and the primary reason behind the model: Practicality.
EVE works because the game is truly massive. Because space environments are so easy to design and process, you can have a game world that looks like this: http://www.eveonline.com/ccp/img/misc/starmap_politicsandwarfare.jpg
Since the worlds for fantasy environments are, by necessity, small, you can't fit all of the players into one world without making the game too crowded. The solution? The good old server shard, realm, or world server.
I'm going to continue this tomorrow, as it's 3 in the morning and I need to sleep.
If you had everyone in one version of Azeroth, then every zone in the game would look like the Stormwind/Orgrimmar Auction House.
ReplyDeleteThe server shard is the only way fantasy MMOs, with their small worlds, can be playable, and because each world is an entirely isolated environment, the game has to be balanced mechanically around this artificially lowered playerbase.
EVE's economy would not function properly in a sharded environment, and this is a nail in the coffin for crafting emphasis.
Crafting emphasis inquires that there are always going to be enough people playing the game to produce what the players need at any given time. The need for crafting is also negated over time unless there is a harsh death mechanic (you lose ALL of your items carried) in place, since there needs to be turnover for equipment for crafters to remain useful.
In multishard, playerbases are smaller. Imbalances are felt harder, and more effort is going to be required for crafters to produce the same level and volumes of goods. If there are too many adventurers, items would be too expensive to afford due to scarcity and adventurers wouldn't have fun. If there were too many crafters, then resources would end up spread out over an entire volume of players, and items would either remain expensive (meaning that only the most elite of adventurers would be able to afford them, and thus do anything remotely fun at high levels) or the market would fill up with equipment nobody needs, and nothing would sell.
The end result is a very, very screwed up economy that isn't fun for anyone. It's why crafting and gathering ended up being designed as such a superficial venture.
The rest of the mechanics you complain about are all necessary. The unholy trinity, derivation into more single-player, the inherent 'laziness', and dare I say, the very model itself, is all necessary.
WoW worked so well because it managed to circumvent the technical limitations that plague fantasy MMOs and fix the glaring mistakes made in Ultima Online and Everquest. On top of that, Azeroth, like you said, was a place people wanted to play in and explore. WoW worked too well because the system is virtually perfect for fantasy MMOs.
Thus, the WoW model will never die. The WoW model is too perfect.
(A bit of opinion for SOTA in the next post.)
I know you have high hopes for Shroud Of The Avatar. However, I don't think Richard Garriot is making promises that won't live up to hype as much as he's making promises that might not be possible.
ReplyDeleteFirst off, Selective Multiplayer opens the doors to TONS of potential problems that are going to turn the multiplayer portion of the game into a nightmare.
Since the point of selective multiplayer is being able to switch between single and multiplayer while using the same character across both mediums, this means that you have to store the player's character locally.
In theory, this sounds like a cool idea. In practice, it is a tried and failed method for keeping your characters.
Phantasy Star Online and Diablo showed us what sorts of problems you get when you let people store characters locally. It's why Diablo 2, Phantasy Star Online: Blue Burst, and more moved to a server-side character system.
Hell. If you've ever played NWN online, no PW server will ever let you use a local character.
The reason for this is simple: Cheaters. And with the dynamic world that Garriot is trying to create, cheaters will utterly destroy this game.
Clearly, Garriot is putting lots of faith in people not breaking his game apart. Unfortunately, people are untrustworthy, and hackers tend to be very... very clever people.
Second, is New Britannia going to be large enough, or is it going to have to be sharded? How is he going to account for the major problems that will inevitably manifest if the world is sharded? In what ways are players going to make their mark in the game world, and how will these accomplishments remain relevant if the world is sharded?
Garriot has good ideas, but he is going to learn very quickly why the WoW model is not only effective, but why the system is the way it is.
I see where you are coming from, even if I don't agree with you on them.
DeleteStarting out with Garriot and SotA - I don't believe they will be storing characters locally, but likely externally on a shared server. This is STILL an on-line game and experience and I doubt Richard (who has worked on multiple MMOs prior) would make what everyone would view as an elementary mistake.
It seems to me more like the idea is to appeal to a broader base of player - both the solo'ers and group players and grant you greater control over the experience as a whole.
As for the 'sharding' problem - that is merely a question of scale and play-ability. I do agree, a large number of players in one place makes everything feel crowded. WoW is designed to limit that by spreading out the player-base, and I have little doubt that SotA will have multiple servers to handle that.
Now scale of the world is problematic - too large and you will have a lot of 'empty' space. Too small, and everyone is stepping all over each other. Yet, as Lord of the Rings Online has shown us - you can keep growing the world and adding areas.. There is NOTHING stopping them from doing do. (That world is simply MASSIVE.)
WoW has likewise decided to keep adding areas and content - unfortunately, they decided not to really go all that far with it. WoW is also the laziest in this - with copy-pasted areas and dull design. Even though Mists of Pandera looked cool - you knew it was just more of the same past the glitz and glitter.
With EVE, I agree on some points - I don't like to play EVE and to me its boring and tedious. Yet, despite all of that - its still downright fascinating to read about and follow.
DeleteNow the thing I completely disagree with you about are about the 'necessity'' of the WoW model.
Yes WoW is perfect - but its also one of the worst games ever made. There I have said it - WoW is terrible, boring, and completely awful.
And THAT is why it works.
WoW did not 'solve' the problems of earlier arguably better titles - It just removed them. By removing any dynamic elements, in exchange for the stability and simplicity of play, it removed anything interesting that the genre could do. In short - WoW's success, was its own failure.
Had WoW been released later, I doubt it would have done as well. But back in 2004, there was no title hotter. Starcraft was still booming, Warcraft 3 was hot - Blizzard could do no wrong. They had the hot property with a large and ready fanbase - and since everyone else had already done all the growing pains and early research, Blizzard could avoid the obvious pitfalls and roll out their game for sale.
And sell it did...
But in their 'fixed' MMO, the solution was to basically cut out anything and everything interesting. And yeah, it worked - but when you shoot for the ground you are likely to hit it. And again - they had the hot setting of the moment. And the competition was VERY limited. Keep in mind back then - the number of MMO's was a lot smaller then it is now.
Fast-forward to today - WoW is starting to struggle because quite simply - ITS BORING and when they tried to change it - it pissed off the older playerbase who kept coming back despite that.
Now this is the global problem of ANY multi-player game that runs long enough. I've seen in it LARPs, MUSH's, table-top RPGs, and of course MMO's - It becomes about the older more potent players. They are after all the ones still coming in after all. They need a reason to stay. So end game content is expanded and added to keep them entertained.
Is this bad for the newbies? Hell no - because it promises to be interesting when you get there too. Its a 'win-win' at least at first... until your players start getting frustrated that all the new content is at the end - and it takes a LOOONG time to get there. So you speed up the leveling process so people can get to the endgame content... repeat..repeat..repeat..
Of course you could just change the entire game world to re-balance it - but hey, that probably won't work either... (Cataclysm anyone?)
I could continue to go after the other points - but right now I won't because this will drag on and on and on... and it won't go anywhere. We can talk WoWs faults all day long, but that is not the point.
DeleteThe problem is WoW remains a bad standard of what works - and ultimately is holding back any real change in the MMO market.
There are actual solutions to all the problems you mentioned. You do not have to go quite as far as EVE to create a fun an interesting game..
But the dull WoW gameplay isn't it.
WoW is dying because it proceeded to take what good it originally had and replace it all with terrible ideas, while keeping all of what people hated about the original game intact. They inadvertently ended up dumbing down their own model AND their own world. (WoW turned the Warcraft storyline into a total idiot plot. Thanks, Blizzard.)
ReplyDeleteI think Blizzard has talent... a sort of self-destructive talent.
If there are solutions to the problems I mentioned, would they be good enough to convince someone who was designing an MMO to take the risk of using them? Sometimes, when people take risks and succeed, things will get WORSE.
It's the same reason that FPSes were such a craze. FPSes evolved in the same fashion that MMOs evolved, giving us the different, but ultimately fun Halo series. (I don't care what you say, Halo was a good series that stuck itself between older more traditional FPS with more modern ideas, and performed it admirably well.) Suddenly, a second change to the formula manifested with Call Of Duty, one of the worst FPS series ever conceived.
It's the same reason that DOTA-Likes (some people know them as MOBAs) with the success of League Of Legends, are popping up like weeds.
Portal? All sorts of strange puzzle-y games are popping up done like Portal. Minecraft? Left 4 Dead? Faster Then Light? Unoriginal voxel building games, roguelikes, and zombie games rise out of the ground and shamble towards us like the walking dead.
ARPGS? We had Neverwinter Nights and Baldur's Gate usurped by games like Mass Effect and Dragon Age.
With MMOs, WoW suddenly hit the field in days where games like Everquest and Ultima Online were the mainstream. These games were horribly inaccessible unless you were willing to spend days, weeks, or months at a time just to make any sort of legitimate progress, and it was just as blatantly boring then, and even cheaper, then it was in WoW.
It's not that the WoW model sucks, it's that the 3D MMORPG model that was introduced with Everquest sucked, and Blizzard built WoW off of that. Once they made the model work, then suddenly like clockwork, WoWLikes started flooding the MMO market.
The only difference is that no other MMO has arrived to usurp its throne, like the way Call Of Duty dethroned Halo, of League Of Legends dethroning DOTA.
This is because every MMO that has tried either ended up tanking, or ended up becoming yet another WoWLike. It's because the WoW model is, as I said previously, is JUST TOO PERFECT. Instead, it took insane levels of self-sabotage to start making WoW's stomach hurt from all the terrible ideas Blizzard has been feeding it.
You are very much right about the end-game content, but you forgot to mention that Blizzard adopted Everquest's extremely stupid expansion model. (Did you know that Everquest is up to TWENTY EXPANSIONS!?) The reason they have to speed up leveling is not as much a requirement of getting to endgame content as much as it is getting people up to the point where they can properly enjoy the latest expansion. This is yet another inherent flaw from the Everquest model that made its way into the WoW model which is only made worse by the fact that WoW expansions are all sequentially additive. And with each expansion, the level cap goes higher, and higher, and higher... and newbies have more progress to burn through before the endgame.
What REALLY makes the WoW model bad, though... is when companies have to combine it with other models. I'll have more on this tomorrow.
Absolutely there would be people willing to try things - hell, people are trying new things all the time.
DeleteThe problem is a matter of logistics and business - No company wants to throw money away on something that won't make money. And this has been a huge problem for years - Plenty of GREAT ideas are out there with people willing to do them. Unfortunately, the standards bar for presentation is quite high at the moment.
The basic truth is - the 'suits' (ie. Company executives) operate in a world where if something does not have an immediate return, its worthless. Companies that can safely ignore that - Like Valve - are a rarity, not the norm.
Even with the growth of independent titles - most are still using 2D & Text due to the cost and difficulty of putting together good 3D models and environments. The bar is pretty damned high - Even SotA looks half a decade out of date.
Now there is nothing wrong with taking an idea and working with it, or improving on it - IF you are adding something to the overall experience. Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery and many great titles and technologies we would have never seen without it.
Now as to the Everquest/WoW connection - Yes, WoW is a cleaned up version of Everquest. They eliminated a lot of the problems Everquest had, and made it prettier. But the assumption is Everquest's model was ever good in the first place (it wasn't) - and WoW certainly usurped its position as leader of the pack.
Now the reasons for this are non-trivial, but can all be laid to the fact that WoW was a late-comer and dodged much of the chaos of the earlier era. Upgrading the entire graphics engine of Everquest would probably have required re-writing most of the game - and giving a game a face-lift rarely looks good to people. They expect you to add stuff, and make changes.
And there is nothing wrong with 20 expansions - IF the expansions add content and possibilities to the game. Copy-pasted new areas is not acceptable, nor is just slightly different AWESOME items for your numbers to better beat up their numbers.
And no Blizzard did not 'sabotage' themselves. (maybe story wise, but their writing team has sucked for a while now) The problem is - that there is nothing else for WoW to do. What you see, is what you get. When they upset the apple cart and changed things around - all they did was expose the faults. Keep in mind that the story of Warcraft was founded by a series of RTS games that just kept trying to improve the model. Up till Starcraft 2 - I'd say they succeeded. (The story however, continued to get weaker and weaker. Arthas remains the dumbest and most obvious villain in the series - even though the missions were fun in WC 3)
DeleteYou really can't compare the MMO market to the Spunk-gargle-oui-wee shooters - except in very specific instances. There is of course a very real similarity to HALO and WoW - both took existing models and cleaned them up.
Now you can wax poetic about HALO till the cows come hom - but all it was was a basic shooter that took a lot of other ideas and put them together without all the usual headaches. Does that make is bad? No. It doesn't make it great either.
Unlike HALO though, WoW is really very bland, and dull. HALO at least has a fair amount of dynamic interaction with players and maps. WoW you just 'click'. There is true skill in HALO. while there is little to none in WoW. HALO is in every way better then WoW is. Its just not a great FPS.
Comparing the FPS & and MMO universes is again - something you can only do selectively. MMO's have a very different mindset (usually) and design requirements then an FPS. FPS's are also older then the modern MMO, and developed in a different environment (Now to be fair - MUD's are waaay older the FPS's but modern MMO's are Everquest onward and are so different from MUDs that its hard to draw real comparisons anymore).
Also FPS's are easier to make then MMO's. You don't have to worry about huge numbers of players, you don't have to worry about endless content, you don't have to care even about cheating (Unless its multiplayer). The amount of control that you can have over an FPS is very different from an MMO.
Now on the subject of risk - is is actually 'non-risky' games that tend to be the worst. CoD is arguably the least risky game series out there right now, and WoW is equally risk-averse.
DeleteMost bad games are actually little more then cheap clones, done poorly to cash in on making a few bucks quick and cheap. The bad games that fail but try new ideas are far rarer, and are usually an example of over-ambition and lack of skill.
However, just because an idea was badly done in one game, does not mean it can't be done well in another.
In fact, if it wasn't for the risk during the early FPS era- its unlikely we'd have some of the great titles we'd have today.
Doing something because you MAY make things worse, is not a good reason to not do it. You may make things better too.
To quickly address how UO & Everquest were 'beaten' by WoW - keep in mind that UO had been marred by its earlier gameplay problems, while Everquest was trying to transition to Everquest 2 around the time WoW came out. It was really the right place, at the right time for WoW.